Monk Thread

Community Manager Community Manager | unknown date

Hey Immortals,

This is where we ask you to provide feedback on the Monk class. If you have suggestions for the game, please direct them to the Suggestions Forum.

If you require assistance with uploading relevant Images or Videos, please view our Image & Video Guide.

Include the following in your comments:

  1. A concise description of your feedback or concerns regarding the class
  2. Why this is something that should be addressed
  3. Any possible fixes or improvements to make the class better

EXAMPLE POST:

Skill X does not do enough damage

Description: The skill X does not do enough damage to reasonably contribute to certain situations.

Why this should be addressed: Skill X is supposed to act as the main damage ability (reasonable cost in resources, low cooldown). Unfortunately, it is not strong enough to allow even solo play, it gets worse in a group making the skill useless.

Possible Fixes/Improvements: Increase the damage of the skill by 35%, or make it scale with the number of players (+20% damage per player in the adventure).

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Founder Founder | unknown date

Is there a limit to how long a post can be? I have quite a bit to say about improvements for the Monk.

User | unknown date

Umbrella statement, copied and pasted from my other post.


 I do like the idea of the 3 stances and almost combo based attack. My interpretation of the stances is that Earth is supposed to be single target, Fire is supposed to be area of effect, and Water is supposed to be mobility/ support. While the idea of a flexible melee class is GREAT, it fails at almost all of those roles. It is not a good DPS, AoE, or support. Fixes? Buff Earth single target damage, AoE for Fire, let Water "flow" by moving faster, with the cooling waters provide healing/support.


If you want I could talk possible buffs I think could help.

Elder Guardian Elder Guardian | unknown date

Umbrella statement, copied and pasted from my other post.

 I do like the idea of the 3 stances and almost combo based attack. My interpretation of the stances is that Earth is supposed to be single target, Fire is supposed to be area of effect, and Water is supposed to be mobility/ support. While the idea of a flexible melee class is GREAT, it fails at almost all of those roles. It is not a good DPS, AoE, or support. Fixes? Buff Earth single target damage, AoE for Fire, let Water "flow" by moving faster, with the cooling waters provide healing/support.

If you want I could talk possible buffs I think could help.

do u have aelerium-9 skill for monk? It suits monk well in my opinion. Almost all combo in Earth stance activates impulse charge. 

Founder Founder | unknown date


I guess I need to split this up because there is IN FACT a limit to how long a post can be, so ya know... Thanks for getting back to me on that....

Part 1 :

I would first like to say that Monk has always been my absolute favorite class to play in Skyforge and I've been playing since closed beta...

That being said, it is hands down the most loathed and berated of all the classes for one simple reason... It's a DPS class that hardly does any actual DPS. There's nothing more that I like than going into an instance with a pick up group and immediately have most of them demand that I switch to another class. No REALLY... It's AWESOME! (sarcasm, btw) It's funny, because almost every time I get these demands it's usually for me to switch to a support role. I'm assuming it's because they see that I'm playing a monk that they just assume that I'm bad at DPS in general... Super! The thing is, I really can't argue with that fact. Monk has relatively very low DPS compared to all the other DPS classes. Even with the Vortex system it's overall Damage Per Second is embarrassingly low.

It has been this way ever since closed beta and I for one would very much like to see a major overhaul of the Monk class in the near future.

I will try my utmost to keep the following from being too long winded and try to stick to the example post template that you have here, but I have quite a bit to say, so I make no promises... You have been warned. Also, you'll notice in my videos that my damage is insanely low and that's because I removed all of my gear and symbols to try and showcase base damage without any interference from said gear/symbols. The Monk is weak, but it's not THAT weak XD.


Founder Founder | unknown date


Part 2 :

No.1 :

Skill X does not do enough damage. (Where X represents every skill the Monk has).

Why this problem should be addressed : Simply put, the Monk is a DPS class and hardly does enough DPS to contribute in almost every situation. This includes Group AND Solo play. The DPS is just not there. It causes fights to drag on and tempers to rise (if you're in a group).

One of the major downfalls of the monks DPS is that anything that does even remotely decent damage requires an absurd amount of conditions... For example lighting the floor on fire after using Burning Staff. For starters, Burning Staff has a cool down of 20 seconds, so it should be doing way more damage in the first place, but if there aren't 3 enemies right on top of you Burning Staff is completely useless as it hardly does any damage by itself. And if said enemies don't have some sort of crowd control effect applied (slow, stun, etc.) they just simply walk off of the tiny AoE. Another example is the Hidden Trauma/Dragon Rage combo that removes Hidden Trauma and does an extra 70% damage. You pretty much have to go through an entire rotation of combos with 2 different stances to get that end result. This takes a relatively long time for that mediocre damage at the end and all of the hits that you do along the way are doing almost no damage thereby bringing the Damage Per Second WAY down. Not to mention that that really long combo is only single target attack. These are just a couple of examples, but I will go into more detail on them and more further in this post or later on in another post.

Possible Fixes/Improvements : Raise the base damage of all the Monks abilities by at LEAST 35%. That number may seem kind of high, but it really isn't when you compare the Monks base ability damage to any other DPS classes (let alone the Support and Tank classes) . Below is a video highlighting just the base LMB attack damage of all the classes.

https://youtu.be/totJRaqd-7w

As you can clearly see, the base damage of the Monk is comparable to that of a Tank class, but with nowhere near as much health... Which leads to the next issue...

No. 2 :

The Monk is a melee range DPS class, but has as much health as the Lightbinder. I don't think I really need to explain this one. The health needs to be increased to at least the Revenants level.

No. 3 :

AoE Skills Burning Staff, Spiral Attack, Heart of a Phoenix and Return Wave are far too narrow (not enough range).

Why this problem needs to be addressed : I'll start with Return wave;

There are a lot of circumstances that require a large group of enemies to be gathered up fast and taken down quickly with AoE attacks (think the groups in the Lending a Hand missions) and Return Wave falls short on this because there are a lot of groups of enemies that are JUST out of range to gather. Also, any group that CAN be gathered is already neatly bundled together anyway, so there's really no point in gathering them with Return Wave except to apply the movement reduction of 95% for 7 seconds, but I'll get into more detail about that later. In the mean time, here's a video showing just how narrow/useless Return Wave is for actually PULLING a group.

https://youtu.be/mlBH9ZirN5Q

Next is Heart of a Phoenix;

Honestly, I have no idea what's going on here... What the range is, if it's even hitting the enemies... Maybe some impact damage animations from the enemies every time it effects them? Also, the only way to do any sort of acceptable (but still not DPS worthy) damage with this move is to have 3+ enemies within range (whatever that range is) AND it has a 30 second cool down. There's 2 conditions right there. It should be doing way more damage. Anyway, 'nother video.

https://youtu.be/MR_IKDnC4A4

Next is Spiral Attack;

This one is actually isn't TOO bad, but it just feels like it could use a little more range as well as a lack of knockback. MELEE CLASSES DO NOT WANT TO KNOCK THEIR ENEMIES OUTSIDE OF MELEE RANGE. Another issue with this skill is that it's only kind of sort of useful if the enemies have 50% or more health, but even then, the damage is bleh. Aaand video.

https://youtu.be/ZE_5SbL5d8s

Finally there's Burning Staff;

As I've mentioned, the conditions for burning staff to do any sort of damage (setting the floor ablaze, the relatively long cool down) are demanding enough to justify not only an increase in damage, but also range. Video.

https://youtu.be/y9dHd6ecvgA

Notice that even though I was right in the middle of the group, the enemies in the back were just BARELY within range of the DoT and could have easily moved out of it. (The fact that I showed both a single target and a group was for damage comparison that I'll get into later).

Possible Fixes/Improvements : Double or even Triple the radius of the Monks AoE attacks/pulls. As for Burning Staff itself, I have an idea that would make it great, but I'm going to go into detail about that later on.

No. 4 :

Every single move of the Monk advances him/her forward.

Why this is a problem and should be addressed : There are a great deal of enemies that, when you come in contact with them, will knock you back and cancel any combo move that you have. This is a nightmare for monks, seeing as almost every ounce of DPS (or lack thereof) stems from combo moves. A really good example of this are the cocoons in the Incubator mission. It is impossible to perform combos against those cocoons. By the time you start to activate the second skill in the combo, you bounce back and have to start over. I don't think I really need to say more about that. I WOULD make a video for this, but I'm not that much of a masochist.

Possible Fixes/Improvements : Well... Just stop the Monk from advancing forward during combos. I still haven't found a viable reason as to why they do that in the first place other than to make the animations mesh together more smoothly. Personally, I'd rather see somewhat odd combos than my character bouncing back every second. Another suggestion would be just to make the Monk immune to knockback during combos, but that might make him a little 'OP' (for PvP babies).

No. 5 :

The second ability in any combo attack sometime doesn't hit the target(s).

Why this is a problem and should be addressed : I think this is pretty self explanatory...

Possible Fixes/Improvements : Please just look into it. Thanks.

No. 6 :

Whatever THIS is... I THINK that the Monk is suppose to advance to the enemy after knocking them back with Lotus Strike, but I honestly have no idea. It almost never works and the enemies almost never end up where they appear. I CAN say for certain that it's all kinds of buggy.

https://youtu.be/uDYZy6kHExo

Possible Fixes/Improvements : Good question...

No. 7 :

The Monk HAS to rely too heavily on supplementary damage abilities.

Why this is a problem and should be addressed : Well let me first clarify what I mean by Supplementary damage abilities. Supplementary damage abilities are anything outside of a classes inherent abilities that cause EXTRA damage (companion damage, emblems, impulse damage, etc.) This is a major issue, because not only does it concede to just how weak the monk actually is, but if any other class had the same build, it would just do that much more damage over the monk, so it doesn't really qualify as a way to increase the Monks actual 'strength'.

Possible Fixes/Improvements : Work out ways to make the MONKS abilities more powerful before duck taping them together with supplemental damage.

Speaking of impulse damage...

No. 8 :

Skill Rapid Motions feels like a slap in the face.

Why this is a problem and should be addressed : For starters, is impulse damage even a thing anymore? I see no way to increase its damage, no way to lower the cool down, and for the Monk, every combo finisher, stone palm, and rapid stream activates it, so you can't really PLAN when or how to use it. Sure you'll be able to recharge it instantly once every 7 seconds by dashing, but to what end?? Ever since Spirit was removed from the game, impulse charge/damage has just been a kind of 'extra' something every now and then (whether you want to use it or not). So, by making this symbol the great A-9 thing to achieve (at the ridiculous cost of 10,000 A-9) you're basically showcasing bonus damage that is essentially... a dead fish.

Possible Fixes/Improvements : Change the symbol to something else. Maybe when the Monk dashes their critical chance is increased by 20% for 4 seconds. Or, Rapid Motions permanently increases the abilities of the Monk by 10-15%. Or, Vortex is now applied to Lotus Strike and Burning Staff... Just anything other than a symbol that uses a dead damage buff... Please.

Now that I've got the general issues out of the way I'm going to focus more specifically on the skills/abilities themselves.


Founder Founder | unknown date


Part 3 :

No. 1 :

Skill Fusion Strike is just... Awful...

I don't even know where to begin with this one... 4 minute cool down. Insanely long activation time (About 5 seconds... Which, as an added bonus, you can't move at all during the activation otherwise it will cancel the whole thing). Mediocre damage that doesn't nearly justify the previous 2 issues. And, oh yeah... Not only does it knock your enemies waaaay back, but it goes through the trouble of spreading them out in all different directions for you. MELEE CLASSES DO NOT WANT TO KNOCK THEIR ENEMIES OUTSIDE OF MELEE RANGE.

Yeah... None of that is good... None. Of. It. 2 Videos! One with the entire sequence and the other one because I accidentally glanced at my movement keys just after activation.

https://youtu.be/VE1UVOZ1zno

https://youtu.be/5f_7c6GhIQ4

Possible Fixes/Improvements : Well... I think this one is a lost cause and just needs to be completely redone. There is literally NOTHING good about it right now, and we're talking about the ULTIMATE ABILITY here. So sad.

No. 2 :

Skill Scorching Strike doesn't do nearly enough damage considering the conditions that have to be met in order to achieve the maximum damage that it is capable of (which, like all of the monks other abilities, is laughably low)

Why this problem should be addressed : For starters, like Fusion Strike, you cannot move at all during the 4 second activation. This leaves you wide open to attack and the damage that it inflicts to the enemies isn't anywhere near high enough to take that kind of risk, making it essentially pointless to use. Also, unless your enemies are slowed, you may as well be throwing soap bubbles at them (not that the damage to slowed enemies is much better). The damage is just too weak. Another thing about this skill which I'm not sure if it's just me or if this is a common problem, but sometimes (most of the time) it will just stop on it's own after half a second. Video. This video shows un-slowed enemies vs slowed enemies for damage comparison. I tried to record a video to show the issue of.. ugh... premature cancellation, but, of course, it wasn't doing it. XD

https://youtu.be/P9nuETV-Q-Q

As you can clearly see, while the damage for Scorching Strike went up just a smidge (about 5% even though it states that it's suppose to increase by 150%) the overall DAMAGE PER SECOND was DRASTICALLY reduced because of the set up time.

Possible Fixes/Improvements : For starters, if the tooltip says it's suppose to increase damage 150% for slowed enemies, then the damage needs to increase 150% for slowed enemies. Period. Secondly, as stated, the inability to move for 4 whole seconds is devastating in any situation if you have no defenses or health (which the Monk has neither of), so maybe the ability to walk around during activation (with the possibility of canceling by dashing). Thirdly, for damage purposes, because it's such a long activation, maybe have the damage scale up for each successive hit? For example, the first hit does x damage, the second does x+20% damage, the third does x+20%+20% damage, etc. Just something to motivate the player to actually make it through the long activation time.

I have a lot more to say, but I think I'm done with this post for now... To be continued XD


:Flavius03:


User | unknown date

You delved into that much more eloquently and colorfully than I was going to lol.


But yes, yes to all of what you said.

User | unknown date

So basically what I derived from your entire post is that you want Monk to be Revenant on steroids. At the risk of coming across as rude, I don't agree with the majority of what you said. You don't seem to know or understand basics of the class, which is honestly appalling considering that you claim to have been playing it for 3 years now. Monk is a class that is 100% dependent on two things, combo attacks and cooldowns, the reason this is necessary is because the class uses no resource, meaning it can spam all of it's primary damage combos endlessly which would be beyond broken considering that all other classes have a burst phase, then they have a down time where they usually can only really use their basic attacks while they wait for their resource or primary burst ability to be restored before they can burst again, usually that cycle happens ones every 40 or so seconds.

I saw your videos, I can clearly see that you are actively trying to downplay each Monk ability by ignoring the second major aspect of the class, and that's combining abilities. This is clearly obvious when you use the lotus strike to try to prove a point but fail to note that combining it with Rapid Stream is how you advance on the enemy and shield yourself in the process (again, this is a basic thing that someone who has been playing the class for 3 years should have been able to figure out). That aside, Lotus Strike has a mechanic that you seem completely unaware of, and that is that sending the enemy flying into other enemies or walls will inflict extra damage

First on the list, combos. You're saying that you don't want it to be knock-back and CC immune during combos because that might be OP in PvP? I'm guessing you're unaware that Monk is pretty much permanently CC immune in PvP (which reinforces my belief that you don't know much about the class). It needs to be immune to knock-back and interruptions in PvE. There is no getting around this, this is actually an issue that Berserker also suffers from, and it's one of the main reasons melee classes are generally frowned upon.

Next, on to some of your complaints:

Heart of a Phoenix is yet another ability you severely play down, the range is melee range, that's obvious if you read the description which clearly states "nearby" enemies, which to decode it for you means enemies in Melee range. The same play down happens with Burning Staff which clearly states that it is intended to be used when surrounded by 3 or more enemies, using it on a single target to try to prove a point just fails at proving said point.

The complaint about Rapid Stream is also out of place, the ability has 2 purposes: 1 Shield; 2 Mobility. It is not intended to be a primary burst ability. As for impulse damage, there are still ways to make that powerful, there are multiple gear stats that can increase impulse damage. Additionally, activating impulse charge increases Rapid Stream's damage by 100%, not the impulse damage, another quirk intended for PvP mainly.

While we are on the topic of Impulse Charges, you complain that you can't manage them because they activate randomly? That is simply not true, Monk has 6 abilities that activate Impulse Charges, and non of them are used randomly. Since you couldn't figure them out in 3 years, I'm going to list them for you: Falling Mountain, Lotus Strike, Dragon Strike, Stone Palm, Rapid Steam, Enraged Harpy.

Scorching Strike is next on the list. Did you even read the description? Since I know the answer is no, allow me to recite the important part of it for you, scorching strike inflicts 150% more damage to immobilized or slowed characters, pay close attention to the word "characters", whenever you see that word used in a description of any ability, it is referring to other player's characters, in other words, PvP exclusively, the PvE word is monsters, and in the event that it works the same way on both the word used is enemies.

Another of your complaints is the ultimate, which although I agree is lame, it's not lame for the reason you state. Fusion Strike is yet another ability primarily intended to be used in PvP, and although to you it may seem like pushing an enemy back and stunning them in PvP might be lame, the combination with Rapid Stream I mentioned before allows you to get to the enemy and shield yourself.

I'm not feeling the narrow ranges you prattle on about either but, I do feel another downplay. Ranges of Monk AoE are 12 yards, that's the standard range for most classes AoE, it's the same for Cryomancer's Whiteout and it's the same for pretty much every other class except for Berserker, I'm not including Slayer in this because it's AoE is practically non-existent. The cooldowns are also shorter than some other classes AoE (40 sec for Berserker, Cryomancer, Kinetic) and granted that these classes have AoE with no CD, it costs resource and typically doesn't do as much damage as the primary AoE ability, which is exactly the case with Monk, with the exception that Monk can use Dragon Rage, Spiral Attack and Scorching Strike to achieve pretty much the same result as said no CD AoE of other classes, except you can spam these infinitely as they cost nothing.

To surmise for you, please read the class abilities and descriptions, understand how it's intended to work, actually learn it and provide quality feedback that doesn't include downplaying aspects of the class just to try to reinforce a point. Also notice how I neglect to mention anything about the "Monk has no defense" part, this is because I don't believe you're saying that seriously, not after 3 years of playing the class. On that note, giving it Revenant health is pretty ridiculous, Revenant has too much health and it needs a reduction, and a significant one, other classes don't need to be brought up to that amount.

I'd like to end on the note that while I agree that Monk needs some fixes and changes, it's not nearly as bad as you're trying to make it out to be. It's major problem is that it needs to set itself up too much in order to do anything, and it takes a lot of skill and careful timing/positioning to do effectively, that's something players in general don't really understand, they don't understand how to play it and thus think it's all around bad, that's where all the hate comes from in groups.

User | unknown date

Part 2 :

No.1 :

Skill X does not do enough damage. (Where X represents every skill the Monk has).

Why this problem should be addressed : Simply put, the Monk is a DPS class and hardly does enough DPS to contribute in almost every situation. This includes Group AND Solo play. The DPS is just not there. It causes fights to drag on and tempers to rise (if you're in a group).

One of the major downfalls of the monks DPS is that anything that does even remotely decent damage requires an absurd amount of conditions... For example lighting the floor on fire after using Burning Staff. For starters, Burning Staff has a cool down of 20 seconds, so it should be doing way more damage in the first place, but if there aren't 3 enemies right on top of you Burning Staff is completely useless as it hardly does any damage by itself. And if said enemies don't have some sort of crowd control effect applied (slow, stun, etc.) they just simply walk off of the tiny AoE. Another example is the Hidden Trauma/Dragon Rage combo that removes Hidden Trauma and does an extra 70% damage. You pretty much have to go through an entire rotation of combos with 2 different stances to get that end result. This takes a relatively long time for that mediocre damage at the end and all of the hits that you do along the way are doing almost no damage thereby bringing the Damage Per Second WAY down. Not to mention that that really long combo is only single target attack. These are just a couple of examples, but I will go into more detail on them and more further in this post or later on in another post.

Possible Fixes/Improvements : Raise the base damage of all the Monks abilities by at LEAST 35%. That number may seem kind of high, but it really isn't when you compare the Monks base ability damage to any other DPS classes (let alone the Support and Tank classes) . Below is a video highlighting just the base LMB attack damage of all the classes.

https://youtu.be/totJRaqd-7w

As you can clearly see, the base damage of the Monk is comparable to that of a Tank class, but with nowhere near as much health... Which leads to the next issue...

No. 2 :

The Monk is a melee range DPS class, but has as much health as the Lightbinder. I don't think I really need to explain this one. The health needs to be increased to at least the Revenants level.


Next is Spiral Attack;

This one is actually isn't TOO bad, but it just feels like it could use a little more range as well as a lack of knockback. MELEE CLASSES DO NOT WANT TO KNOCK THEIR ENEMIES OUTSIDE OF MELEE RANGE. Another issue with this skill is that it's only kind of sort of useful if the enemies have 50% or more health, but even then, the damage is bleh. Aaand video.

https://youtu.be/ZE_5SbL5d8s


No. 4 :

Every single move of the Monk advances him/her forward.

Why this is a problem and should be addressed : There are a great deal of enemies that, when you come in contact with them, will knock you back and cancel any combo move that you have. This is a nightmare for monks, seeing as almost every ounce of DPS (or lack thereof) stems from combo moves. A really good example of this are the cocoons in the Incubator mission. It is impossible to perform combos against those cocoons. By the time you start to activate the second skill in the combo, you bounce back and have to start over. I don't think I really need to say more about that. I WOULD make a video for this, but I'm not that much of a masochist.

Possible Fixes/Improvements : Well... Just stop the Monk from advancing forward during combos. I still haven't found a viable reason as to why they do that in the first place other than to make the animations mesh together more smoothly. Personally, I'd rather see somewhat odd combos than my character bouncing back every second. Another suggestion would be just to make the Monk immune to knockback during combos, but that might make him a little 'OP' (for PvP babies).

No. 5 :

The second ability in any combo attack sometime doesn't hit the target(s).

Why this is a problem and should be addressed : I think this is pretty self explanatory...

Possible Fixes/Improvements : Please just look into it. Thanks.


I've got some feedback regarding these issues as well.


As for 1 - I agree the damage is lackluster compared to any other damage class.  I do understand that Monk does have some interesting mechanics, mobility and such, but in terms of competing with other dps, it's always been a fair amount below the average of the others.  I can't say how much a % the damage should increase, but consistently I see Monks underperforming in regards to damage when grouping.  In my personal experience, I felt that in order to keep up with even the regular dps of another class, I had to micro the shit out of everything and focus just to get to the same level as someone who's just...kinda half there spamming blindly.


For 2, Monk isn't quite as flimsy as you think.  They do have some mitigation and a few ways to avoid damage (I love using a flip or jump or whatever to dodge something :D), though I do think their HP is a little on the low side for having to be in melee range with some of the heavy hitters and such.

-With Spiral Attack, yeah it shouldn't knock back like that, so frustrating at times, but not as much as the next thing...


#4 - O M G this can be such a pain in the ass!  I get that it's kinda useful for PvP, helps you chase the enemy if they're backing out, but in some situations like the taller enemies, or certain bosses (or stuff that won't move) you can find yourself bouncing off and back out some, and this unfortunately resets your combo.  It doesn't happen EVERY time, and you can slightly help prevent it if you take a step back after every hit in the combo (doesn't always work either, but for me it happens less often).  I always hated it when I was going for the 3rd hit on a combo for some 'high' damage finisher only to get trolled by collision and sent flying back a bit because my model got too close, ending the combo.  This would be my most desired fix out of anything, as it just really really frustrates the hell out of me when I fail a combo because of the bounceback 5 times in a row, and now my dps is in the toilet and a bunch of effects don't go off like I planned, messing up everything.


Lastly at 5.  Yeah, I noticed this occasionally that when using the second hit in a combo looks like it hit the enemy, but no effects go off at all.  No damage, no other effects from the ability itself, but you do get the entire animation.  This doesn't ALWAYS happen, but for me it appears to happen more often with Fire and Earth stances.


I really hope the devs take this feedback of all of ours into consideration and make some real changes to the Monk class soon, as they've been in dire need of some fixes (Heck, #4 has been around for a LONG, LONG time and still hasn't been addressed even though there's been mention of it all over the reddit countless times)


Thanks for reading, and I do realize it's long winded, but I have faith that the dev teams will finally take a step forward to improving the Monk class as a whole.  I would recommend they do some reddit searches as well for more feedback regarding Monk & other classes.




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